Idaho State Cross Country Course Discussion

[paullind]

This is a new Thread for Discussion on State Cross Country Course Location

[paullind]

Copied information from the most recent posts on the topic:


Regarding the issue of a permanent site for the state cross country meet, there a few things that need to be clarified. First, when the letter was sent to the IHSAA it was signed "District 1 Coaches". I know, because I wrote it. Like many of fellow coaches, I wanted to see a permanent site for the same reasons that have been argued over the years at the meeting before the state cross country meet. I know that many of us voice our opinions, as we do on this site, with no change. I decided, along with other District 1 Coaches, that if we wanted real change, we needed to go to the IHSAA board. We simply used the same rationale only in a different format to a different audience. The intention was never to offend, but rather to have our voices heard.

Shawn Lawler
Timberlake XC
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Chris Belcher
Guest

Re: 1A as a Separate Classification
« Reply #16 on Dec 11, 2009, 5:03pm »

Mr. Lawler, would you be willing to post a complete copy of the letter and all of the associated attachments that you sent to the IHSAA regarding the District 1 Coaches proposal to have permanent site for the state XC meet.

The arguments that exist in your letter may help clarify the District 1 Coaches position concerning the use of a permanent site for the state XC meet.

Thank you,

Dr. Chris Belcher
Highland XC.
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Shawn Lawler
Guest

Re: 1A as a Separate Classification
« Reply #17 on Dec 11, 2009, 6:03pm »

Mr. Belcher,

The reason I chose not to post the letter earlier, is because I don't see what it will accomplish. It's a moot point. The IHSAA board will make a decision regardless. Posting the letter would only bring the same debate we have each year at the meeting. In fact, it may bring dissension among regional coaches. The intention is to help the sport, not hurt.

Shawn Lawler
Timberlake XC
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Chris Belcher
Guest

Re: 1A as a Separate Classification
« Reply #18 on Dec 12, 2009, 5:36pm »

Mr. Lawler I understand your reluctance to post the document you and the other Region 1 coaches submitted to the IHSAA concerning a permanent site for the state XC Meet.

I do not believe, however, that it would be a moot point to submit a copy of the letter and its related documents to this forum. If it was a moot point then you and the other region coaches would not have submitted the document to the IHSAA.

In addition, only a small minority of coaches attend the coaches meeting that is held every year at the state meet. The coaches who fail to attend this meeting may be unaware of previous discussions concerning the identification of a permanent site for the state XC meet and/or unaware of new developments or arguments concerning this issue.

Generally speaking, Mr. Hill has created a forum that allows the coaches to freely discuss, and at times argue, particular points concerning the sport of cross country in Idaho. In my opinion open debate and discussion of any topic, provided the correct information is given, is the most healthy and promising way to accomplish a particular goal, or in this case to help the sport.

Also, it has been my observation that some coaches see the proposal submitted by the Region 1 coaches as an attempt to protect themselves from racing at altitude, rather than an economic issue concerning travel.

Consequently, posting the document submitted to the IHSAA from the Region 1 coaches would go a long way to clear up any dependencies in what other coaches outside of Region 1 may or may not believe. Furthermore, several regions throughout the state are currently under economic pressure, and the arguments made by the Region 1 coaches may provide insight to other coaches and regions, helping these regions develop a similar proposal which may or may not be more refined that the proposal submitted by the Region 1 coaches.

Finally, Mr. Lawler as an educator, I am sure you are aware of the saying that, "knowledge is power". . . . failure to provide knowledge to others, is also a form of power.

Providing a copy of the proposal submitted to the IHSAA by the Region 1 coaches would essentially empower all of the coaches who participant or periodically check this message board. Thus, allowing a collective of coaches to understand one another and work together. While at times we as coaches may argue over the various issues presented on this or other message boards, such arguments allow us, as a particpative majority, to find creative solutions to the difficult problems that are currently present in our sport.

Sincerely,

Dr. Chris Belcher
Highland XC

[Shawn Lawler]

Dr. Belcher,

The letter is a moot point because no matter how great our discussion about a permanent site becomes, the IHSAA board will decide what it wants to do.

Our letter was nothing magical. We simply made the following points.
1) We feel that runners throughout the state should have an opportunity to preview the state course each year on a Saturday invitational. The last two times the state meet was in North Idaho (Lewiston and CDA), this was not possible. The infamous Lewiston Un-Invite was on a Thursday. This year, Circling Raven would not allow a Saturday meet or any other meet in September as it would take away from golfing.
2) The location in the 3rd District is ideal as no team has to travel more than one full day on a bus whether they want to preview the state course or for the actual state meet. In the case when state is held in the 5th or 6th District (Idaho Falls/Pocatello) teams from the 1st or 2nd District would have 12-14 hours of travel by bus. This length of travel can cause undue fatigue on runners. Also, the financial burden on individual school districts can be immense when factoring in the cost of hotels, meals, time out of school and bus driver expenses. Since most of the schools are in the 3rd District, the reimbursement for travel would be less each year.
3) The cost to the IHSAA for set-up would be almost nothing since they would not have to pay for hotels, travel and food for the workers as most live in the 3rd District.
4) We also feel that college coaches would be more familiar with the times at an established course to consider athletes for scholarship opportunities.
5) A permanent site as in our neighboring states (Washington, Oregon) would have meet records including classification and age records for both genders. Many of us are "numbers people" (myself included). How cool would it be to be able to compare from year to year?

Shawn Lawler
Timberlake XC

[bravecoach]

As has been stated previously if you feel strongly one way or the other about this issue send a letter to the board so that your voice is heard. If you don't speak up and the decision that is reached is one you don't agree with the only person you can blame is yourself.

Chris Belcher stated very correctly in his post that a 'minority' of coaches attend the coaches meetings at state and end up not having their voices heard on the issues that effect our sport. Then they complain about changes that are or aren't being made.

As my grandfather once said to me 'It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease'. Your silence can only be interpreted as agreement with what has been discussed.

Congrats to the District 1 coaches for stepping up and voicing their feelings. One can only hope that other coaches throughout the state will do the same.

[aweber]

There is no doubt that we coaches need to increase communication with each other as well as the IHSAA board.

Our once a year meeting at the state meet is often limited to those attending the meet and further limited to those coaches able to travel to the meeting site who also have someone to supervise their runners.

This new forum has yet to attract many members.

For this forum to be successful in increasing communication we need to increase membership. I have invited people to join and had limited success.

Brett, could you send out an email invitation from your list?

Any other ideas?

April Weber
Troy JR/SR High School
District II

[bravecoach]

At the IHSAA Board meeting today the board tabled a motion from the District 1 schools to have the State Cross Country meet held permanently at Eagle Island State Park.

as one would expect there were numerous letters on both sides of the issue. So the board decided to gather more information from the Superintendents as well as the ADs and coaches.

A large part of the discussion was on the ecomonics of traveling to the state meet site from the North and Southeast as well as the criteria for hosting. i.e. good safe course, adequate parking for buses and spectator vehicles, ample nearby housing and meal facilities for teams and officials, adequate number of workers nearby, access to the course ie will an invitational meet be held on the course during the season.

The board will poll the Superintendents as well as the ADs and coaches in the near future and make a decision at a future meeting. Stay tuned.